VO or Dathorn?

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Posted by Nestle, 06-21-2003, 04:19 AM
Ventures Online has a very good reputation, it seems to be a big company, has good support and it seems that its going to be around for long time. Dathorn has a good repuatation but for not as long as VO. It seems to be mainly run by one person with some people that help him. They have perfect costs, and the support seems quite good. What will be decisive is their servers uptime. I can check Dathorn's uptime records online. All I know about VO is that they have great uptime. But how great? How does it compare to Dathorn uptime? So if you had to make a choice based on: 20% Reputation 20% Price 20% Support 40% Uptime Which one would you choose?
Posted by Kane55686, 06-21-2003, 12:22 PM
I have been on Dathorn for a few months, all i can say is it's gotten better and better.
Posted by WCHost, 06-21-2003, 01:48 PM
I can't think of bad points about Dathorn~ I have been with him....few days later will be 3 months
Posted by eBoundary, 06-21-2003, 10:49 PM
Check the dathorn forums, they have uptime reports posted publically.
Posted by inteltechs, 06-22-2003, 01:21 AM
VO would be the choice, if could afford them.
Posted by Toeki, 06-22-2003, 02:18 AM
I would go with VO if I where you
Posted by Nestle, 06-22-2003, 04:05 AM
Alright .. so far they are 50%-50% in the poll. Is there a place I can check the uptime reccords of the VO servers? And can you tell me why you suggest what you suggest? E.i is the uptime of the host you suggest better?
Posted by Nestle, 06-23-2003, 04:28 AM
I emailed VO asking about a link for their uptime record but they don't have one. They told me that their second oldest Bulk Reseller server is up for 81 days and that their newest server is too new to have any stats, but I am sure they have much more than 2 servers. Also, I am sure that a company like VO should have uptime records somewhere, and it makes me a bit worried that they don't want their numbers (with the exception of 1 server) to be public. Any clients of VO that can tell me what % of uptime they get on average every month?
Posted by JP., 06-23-2003, 06:06 AM
The reseller server I'm on shows over 20 days of uptime since the last quick reboot. Before that it was 70 days or so, I dont remember exactly. I've been with them for around half a year and there has been no extended downtime, at all. There have been a few reboots and one or two bief network glitches but you'll get that wherever you go. Their network is rock solid. The longest amount of time I've had to wait for a support ticket to be answered is 1 hr 20 mins and that was late at night. The selling point for me was that they own their own datacenter. That means that if a server fails, they are right there to fix it immediately -- no waiting for a middle man. The one problem I've had is that the load on the server seems a little high during peak hours, but as long as it's not causing downtime I'm not too concerned. I'm always looking for a better deal, but for the money, I haven't found one yet
Posted by Nestle, 06-23-2003, 01:36 PM
From what I hear their uptime must be very good. I wonder why they refuse to give their exact uptime numbers to the public. I emailed them again and they said that they do not give to the public this kind of info ... strange.
Posted by Deek40, 06-23-2003, 01:41 PM
Companies just do things different ways, some companies share more information to the public than others. In this vote I would choose Dathorn.
Posted by moe8585, 06-23-2003, 01:56 PM
Both seem to be reliable companies and dathorn is much cheaper. So my vote goes to dathorn.
Posted by ChrisTech, 06-23-2003, 02:27 PM
I'm at Dathorn, and I love it. After 5 crappy hosts, this one knows what its doing, its cheap, I can host all my domains there...check out the forums...open to all. Can't beat that. Last edited by ChrisTech; 06-25-2003 at 01:04 PM.
Posted by Rochen, 06-23-2003, 08:33 PM
Ventures Online
Posted by illogix, 06-26-2003, 11:34 AM
I was with VenturesOnline before but I had to quit because the load on the server was really high at peak hours. It would easily reach 15 and the websites were really slow. I opened a lot of support tickets about it and they refused to do anything about it except restart apache. I would stay away from them.
Posted by Toeki, 06-26-2003, 05:01 PM
Dathorn pricing is really great but don't show any address or phone number on their website.
Posted by ChrisTech, 06-26-2003, 06:07 PM
They don't need to. Site is always up. check their forums...they did have both up at one time, but due to people abusing them, they were removed.
Posted by Toeki, 06-27-2003, 03:48 AM
I would think it would be better to have some other way of contacting them besides only email.
Posted by RandyO, 06-27-2003, 05:15 PM
I have been with VO for 2 years, 0 Complaints with them, Uptime has been exceptional and thru-put has always been great. They are not cheap but then again I have NEVER had more than a 10 min delay from support. Yea 10 Minutes.... and problem resolution is usually inside that same 10 minutes. the only hassles I have had are actually directed at cPanel for not informing us of when major upgrades occur. Nothing like a landslide of problems coming in when PHP or mysql was upgraded. Bah humbug.
Posted by cowpoke, 06-28-2003, 09:08 AM
I was about to sign up with Dathorn, and still may (in the future) for clients that have non-critical sites (family photos, etc.) For my primary reselling account, however, I will not use Dathorn. During a recent DDOS attack, one server was down for about 2 days, and that can happen to any host. The reason I will not use Dathorn is that they were unwilling to discuss any possibilities of having access to more than one server so that a hot-standby of critical sites could be done. If there had been a dialog explaining why, it would have been nice, however, the only response I got was to not worry about it. It seems there's a staff of one (Andrew) and that if he were to ever be in a car accident, I'm not sure I'd have support. During the DDOS attack, only Andrew was visible. Dathorn does not allow remote access to mysql for some reason. I'm accustomed to being allowed to enable/disable remote access as I please (and use MysqlFront to copy databases from one site to another -- very handy for keeping a hot standby up to date). Support for Real Audio/Video is only HTTP mode. I'm not sure what percent overhead this causes, but I need to provide audio for 28.8 users that won't be choppy. My question in the Dathorn forum about HTTP overhead for Real Audio went unanswered. They have plans to move to Direct Admin, which is immature and will take time before I see them as a viable Cpanel replacement. I'm not here to bash Dathorn, but to share my findings and how I was treated as a potential customer. I may use them in the future for clients who want large amounts of disk for their family pics / videos, since their package / pricing is very attractive. Their uptime stats are excellent, but when their is an unwillingness to have a dialog about hot standby for mission critical / ecommerce sites, and an apparent support staff of only one person, I am not comfortable choosing Dathorn. My 2 cents
Posted by GPL, 06-28-2003, 04:10 PM
I doubt for dathorn, i guarantee that
Posted by Aussie Bob, 06-28-2003, 04:47 PM
I'm sure that Andrew will bring staff in, when it suits his business cashflow. Or he could go outsourced staffing [bobcares etc].
Posted by Kane55686, 06-28-2003, 08:42 PM
I think he has one other staff member, not too sure..
Posted by Dathorn-Andrew, 06-28-2003, 09:20 PM
There are already 3 seperate inividuals that help manage the trouble tickets. I no longer have the 24/7 shift But when an issue such as that attack you mentioned comes up, I obviously want to get it taken care of and I'm not going to leave until it is. Regarding the "hot-standby" issue, that is something that we don't offer. If you want to run your own DNS and have seperate accounts on two servers, then be my guest. But if that's something you're looking for us to do then you'll have to go elsewhere as that's not something we offer.
Posted by Kane55686, 06-28-2003, 10:19 PM
Well stated.
Posted by FW-Mike, 06-29-2003, 02:00 AM
I went with Dathorn. Uptime is quite good (look at their forum for links)
Posted by Nestle, 06-30-2003, 02:17 PM
Ok, I decided to go with Dathorn. Ventures Online had some big advantages over Dathorn: 1)They have been a leader in the industry for a couple of years already with excellent reputation. 2)They have their own DC. And a big disadvantge: The price is more that twice as much. If VO were willing to give me the uptime of their servers and that uptime was better than Dathorn's then probably i would have gone with VO. But they didn't, and I choose Dathorn that has their uptime available for everyone to see and its quite good also. Time will show if this decision was right.
Posted by kohashi, 06-30-2003, 06:51 PM
cowpoke: your wanting mission critical ecommerce sites for under 14$. Thats absurb. Go run to rackspace and buy a thousands dollar server with "fanatical support" and perfect uptime. You cannot expect a budget host to have mean backups. That is your job. You get what you pay for (in dathorn's case you get a lot more). I have been with dathorn for a little over a month now, and andrew doesnt need phone support. I havnt needed his help for anything but my own screw up. Dathorn's servers run fine, I experienced 0 downtime and have never worried about my sites ever. After being with FeaturePrice, dathorn is a godsend for me. My vote goes straight to dathorn. keep up the great work andrew!
Posted by RandyO, 07-01-2003, 05:32 AM
Kind of premature statement isnt it? I figure it takes 6 months to even start to evaluate a place. I also kind of compare the 2 like apples and oranges. VO and D are 2 different type services
Posted by Nestle, 07-01-2003, 02:57 PM
They are different, but why apples and oranges? They both offer Cpanel/WHM with more or less the same features. The only main difference I see is that VO has their own DC.
Posted by GPL, 07-02-2003, 11:15 AM
I choose dathorn.
Posted by ThePrimeHost, 07-02-2003, 02:50 PM
Can't you just see someone reaching into a pouch and pulling out a little ball when they say that......
Posted by akuo, 07-02-2003, 04:33 PM
They're each serving quite a different client base and in terms of scale of operation they're worlds apart. Maybe not apples and oranges... perhaps more cucumbers and zucchinis?
Posted by titoboo, 07-03-2003, 10:41 AM
you're fooling yourselves if you think the 2 are even in the same class. VO not only operates their own, awesome datacenter they also have fully qualified staff, online 24/7. By qualified I don't mean someone who's been reading WHT for 2 years and thinks he's an expert in server management/security etc. Got a server with VO 4 months ago, 100% uptime. Dathorn is simply for a different audience - having said that, probably exactly the type that frequent WHT and ask questions like these. PS. What on earth is that poll supposed to show? I will bet you any money atleast 99% of those who voted have not had experience with BOTH companies - how could they possibly make a comparison? I sleep easy at night knowing my server is in the best hands possibly, knowing it's not watched over by some guy with a copy of SecureCRT, but by the data center folks themselves. No offense to Dathorn, it may well be the next VO .. but for now, if you need reliability, piece of mind knowing your server is managed by qualified staff and owners of the business who care about each and every customer, you can't go wrong with VO. Or don't, .. that's one less competitor for myself somewhere down the road
Posted by Nestle, 07-03-2003, 02:05 PM
Then why VO refused to give their uptime reports to me when I asked twice? Nobody would desagree that VO has several advantages, but in the end what matters most (since features etc are about the same) is uptime. And since they are not the cheapest host around i believe they should at least give their uptime records to prospective customers. (while having them online would be even better).
Posted by RandyO, 07-03-2003, 02:50 PM
Wish I knew that answer but I can tell you that after 2 years with them I feel the same way as titoboo. Secondly It would not surprise me if that those reports would read 100% due to the connections they use. As soon as you advertise that type of uptime some one goes gunning for you. May as well let your customers tell it for you. One draw back to hosting with them however. You wont be selling plans to the people that frequent WHT very often. From what I have seen here, most are merely trying to find the cheapest deal out there. This is a blessing in disguise anyway, the cheap accounts are usually the most abused and most troublesome. I suppose the decision actually rest on a different parameter. What kind of service are you going to run? I do think that this question is far more pertinent to your decision than opinions you are seeking to compare these 2 companies.
Posted by kohashi, 07-03-2003, 03:51 PM
It is mostly hearing the benefits of each webhost. Also, one month is not very long with a hosting company I agree. And I havnt ever expirenced a problem with the server in that time. From my experience I have had no trouble that has been server related. I have been with more hosts then I have fingers, the really bad ones I could tell you were bad within a week in almost every case. The only case I have had where I couldnt tell was FeaturePrice. My point is that hosts that are going to be troublesome are from the start in most cases.
Posted by akuo, 07-03-2003, 07:06 PM
double post Last edited by akuo; 07-04-2003 at 06:41 PM.
Posted by akuo, 07-03-2003, 07:33 PM
That's simply the way they choose to run their business. It's nothing personal and it's certainly no indicator of their standard of service. Most web hosting companies do not give out detailed uptime reports. While it is interesting reading, there's more to a hosting company than uptime alone!
Posted by Yoman, 07-06-2003, 08:35 AM
Goodnight Nestle, uptime over what period of time? Everybody i'm reading in this thread has been with Dathorn 3 months or less. A while back there was this hot company that everybody loved run by a guy called Marc. they had good uptime too - for a few months at a time. Now, noone wants to be with McHost. Back then there was a company I almost went with but they didn't offer a similiar reseller plan. It had a great reputation and to this day it still has - Venturesonline. I'm not saying anyone should go with them. I'm saying WHT enthusiasts have a way of jumping on the latest bandwagon. Then the bandwagon gets loaded and the wagon breaks down (alot). After my Mchost debacle I want to know how long a company has been in business right after hearing their reputation. Hats off to Dathorn so far but you scare the life out of me. $13.50 can't leave a whole lot for hiring additional staff and building your business and i suspect those boxes are filling up real fast. Come to think of it maybe I'll get one of those for those clients that want to pay no more than $4/month for hosting if they promise not to ask for help more than once a month.
Posted by theNonsuch, 07-06-2003, 08:54 AM
I was with VO off and on for two years before I went dedicated, and I can't speak highly enough about their services. Uptime was phenomenal, and support was the most reliable and consistent I've ever seen. That said, there seems to be a "price beats all" mentality around these forums, so the comment that the two companies service different audiences is probably apt. I don't know Dathorn's business model, but I have to say it makes no sense, and doesn't seem to be scalable. Servers, bandwidth, and staff cost money: where will it come from when the pricing has razor-thin profit margins?
Posted by Aussie Bob, 07-06-2003, 10:35 AM
It just comes down to a lot of 13.50/mth accounts per server, and hence being able to generate sufficient revenues for good staffing and profits etc. I've crunched the numbers there, and all the best to them. One thing that is in their favour though, is they don't allow overselling. You might be able to safely hand out a 3GB disk and 30GB data transfer WHM account, for $13.50/mth, if you don't allow overselling of that WHM account. I'd guess that they're looking for a minimum of 1k/mth revenue per server [maybe a lot less?], for the business model to properly function and for it to be all worthwhile. You're going to need a LOT of $13.50/mth accounts to get up to that 1k/mth in server revenue. It's not a business model that many of us would attempt. Cheaper plans mean generally more tech support to the end user. It'll be interesting to see how that model is shaping up in 12mths time though.
Posted by Rusky, 07-10-2003, 02:45 PM
Ventures Online and Dathorn are not in the same group. You can get milk from a cow or from a sheep but the animals are not equal. They can be both good hosts but are not in the same group. Regards.
Posted by badhat, 07-20-2003, 02:13 AM
I think that many write opinions but don't really stress the points made above in a more practical analysis for those trying to evaluate what they need and the pull of the latest and greatest deals. I think that you have to decide whether your site is mission critical. Most of my own sites are small and really do not want more than an hour downtime during business hours. Most would say that isn't relaly so mission critical and I guess it isn't. Regardless, I can safeily say that I don't think twice at VO as they are right on top of things. They have a nice size staff, datacenter and even with some bad glitches that I've experienced (and some of the load time issues) they are far and away the best I have seen over a significant period of time. I began hosting with a company called OLM which had great speed, support and uptime but never updated PHP and mysql and didn't have popular options. I agonized foolishly over how I NEEDED the reliability until I realized that I was fooling nobody and how many of my sites weren't mission critical although I'd like them up most of the time. I do sell some sites to law firms and want to have more of a guarantee that if there is a problem (like email) it will be fixed quickly. Those are mission critical and VO is where they are at. I have looked at others and while may rave over httpme, I decided not to do so because of lack of SSH, limited mail/newsletter mail sent, and a few other things --- but like OLM that does mean that simply because they want more control and safety over features does not mean they are a bad host, just not for me for my purposes. Could I go with dathorn? Probably. I'll likely get a small account. But do note -- anyone who says that you don't need a telephone number or remote way to contact a host for relatively important stuff is talking nonsense, IMHO. Dathorn is, IMHO, a good looking host that is not yet the kind of place you want for really important stuff or for your main businesses as defined above. For most it will suit you fine (and if you actually had 99% uptime instead of 99.5 you'd have a total of around 7 hours downtime versus 3.5 a month) you'd still do just fine for what you need.
Posted by akuo, 07-20-2003, 03:45 AM
Depends what you mean "remote". As for telephone support, I've been on both sides - both hosting and being hosted. By way of disclaimer, I do offer hosting services *without* telephone support, but I can honestly say that in of all the websites I've been involved with over the last 7 years from the other side of the fence (as web developer / designer etc), I've never once needed to pick up the phone. If your host can't respond quick enough to an email, why are you with them in the first place? A good host will either a) inform clients straight away of problems or b) respond quickly to helpdesk/email issues. Even better if they do both! From a clients perspective I would not put ANY weight on whether a host offers phone support or not, it's simply not high on my priority list - uptime and quality support are much more important, IMHO. To put it another way, think of the number of BAD hosting companies that *do* offer phone support. Not good for much then, huh
Posted by RandyO, 07-20-2003, 11:34 AM
Send out a hundreds e-mails every time there is a hiccup in the network or server? Our priority is "fix the problem first" If a customer wants an explaination we will tell them exactly what happened. To notify every customer every time in the name of being a " good host" seems a bit over the top to me. Offering a phone number to the client just gives them 1 more avenue of contact. I prefer the phone myself when it comes to some issues such as billing problems. None come to mind actually.
Posted by akuo, 07-20-2003, 05:33 PM
I wasn't suggesting that! But if there's expected maintenance or serious issues for example, it does pay to let people know. It's called being proactive. I can think of plenty. Just search for "on hold" or "voice mail" and you'll quite possibly find a few here. I can also think of a number of great hosts that don't offer phone support. It simply has no bearing on a quality / uptime / service levels whatsoever. Anyway, I didn't mean to drag this off-topic. My point was that although Dathorn doesn't offer phone support and VO do - personally I wouldn't hold that against them. They're both doing well at this stage, but yes they are most definitely in different strata when it comes to infrastructure etc. I guess it just depends what you're looking for. Both companies do what they do very well
Posted by RossMAN, 07-23-2003, 07:47 PM
Yep it boils down to price, if I could afford VO then I would go with them over dathorn.

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